KR Raja-Understanding gas pricing-20090616-093209

  • KR Raja-Understanding gas pricing-20090616-093209 

Divya G has transcribed this tape in a comment below. Please crosscheck.


1 Response to “KR Raja-Understanding gas pricing-20090616-093209”

  1. 1 divya November 27, 2010 at 2:10 pm


    KR Raja: Hey (inaudible)
    Niira: Hi Raja
    KR: Haan, whats (inaudible)
    N: I…can we talk?
    KR: yayaya
    N: No I just wanted to understand
    KR: mm
    N: You er Raja, just to get a perspective, obviously media’s going to continue speculating for another day or so
    KR: Haan
    N: I wanted to, you have, you have seen the judgement no, of course…
    KR: Yaya completely..completely I read, completely, all 325 pages I read.
    N: What’s your view?
    KR: No, the view is this it is written by them
    N: Ahan
    KR: Yaya 100 % 100 % 100 % 150% 1,050 % hehehe
    N: Ahan
    KR: I can show the paragraphs where I can say with authority that judge would have never written like that…It is it is manipulated judgement. 100% manipulated judgement. 100 and 100% Completely. Because you see, he was so naïve that he couldn’t have understood so much and written, first of all,
    N: Hmm
    KR: And second, the way in which it was written it is very clear
    N: Hmm
    KR: Absolutely. Anyway so probably tomorrow or the day after we can say that we are going to Supreme Court
    N: But we are moving that way, ya?
    KR: 150%
    N: Ya absolutely
    KR: Yaya there is no way that, there is no way that this judgement can be taken
    N: Raja, just wanted to understand one thing from the media standpoint because there are questions that are coming in, continuously refer to one thing
    KR: Haan
    N: The MoU had said that the RIL price, whatever will be the price, will be the NTPC price
    KR: Err..the reverse. That is, NTPC price will be used for RNRL
    N: RNRL. Sorry the RNRL will be the NTPC price
    KR: Correct
    N: The NTPC price was determined by us when they called for a global bid, right?
    KR: Ya, global bid, it is the reverse. You will have to understand that it is not a bid for gas by a third party, that, you know, what is bidding mentioned in the PSE, is that people should
    N: Ahan
    KR: for buying the gas, you reverse, you understand. That is, what happened, when we discovered the price of 4.32, we asked people at what price you can buy the gas,
    N: Right
    KR: So the higher the price you say, that, Government determines, that is the price, final only
    N: Right
    KR: In fact, 4.32 was the highest. Finally the government said ok ok ok 4.20 kar diya (did it)
    N: Hmm
    KR: Now, this is reversed. This is not that bidding. This bidding is somebody says I want gas, then people will quote less only na
    N: Correct
    KR: So, that bidding and this bidding only Mukul Rohatgi can confuse the judge but if you think very properly, it is the reverse of bidding. It is not, it is reverse bidding. That, in reverse bidding you can never find the maximum price of gas, na.
    N: No, understood. So when you bid for NTPC,
    KR: Haan
    N: To supply them gas, you bid at 2.34
    KR: Yes we we said 2.34 and in the contract we said this price is subject to government approval
    N: Government approval, based on the fact that when government will have to determine the price when you called for bidding which was the highest at 4.3
    KR: Correct, correct
    N: Ok. So, therefore, what you are saying is, my 2.34 is not binding on me
    KR: Yaya, 150% I said it was not binding on me, 150%, 150% I said it is not binding on me
    N: But we never opposed
    KR: I will tell you, I will tell you, that, what is the difference.
    N: Uhmm
    KR: Even if the government says that, suppose it approves 2.34 for them
    N: Uhmm
    KR: Then, they will fix the valuation also price for me at 2.34. See what, what do you mean by valuation? Very simple, I will teach you. It is as if I am buying at 2.34 and selling at 2.34
    N: Right
    KR: Whereas, if 2.34 is the price for NTPC but government is going to say the valuation price is 4.34, I lose 1.8
    N: Right
    KR: That that will never happen in NTPC case, even if the government approves, even if the government approves, that will be taken as the valuation.
    N: Hmm
    Now, here is the…the judge has written: Government has no right to interfere with the price at which you are selling the gas, the 4.20 determined by the government is only the price for the purpose of valuation. I (incomprehensible: one word) it clear so so so so …so so this can never be accepted by us…So, if you ask me the question, how NTPC 2.34 may be acceptable to you, why it is not acceptable to you, it is, this is the answer, because for my cost recovery, 2.34 will be used by the government
    N: Right. Ok, so now, (clearing of throat)..the… we never contested 2.34 when the legal and binding agreement came up, for, in dispute
    KR: No, that was not the dispute at all, because the dispute, they never raised, NTPC never raised a dispute on price, they never raised a dispute on price
    N: Hmm
    KR: They were, they raised a dispute on…liability, that’s all. Only dispute was on liability. That if you don’t supply the gas they wanted ..err..the…the… us to indemnify them. Whereas we said no, it cannot be done. Now, if you see the form of the contract which they sent to us itself and if they don’t contains that, the price is subject to approval of Government of India…haha
    N: NTPC says that, right?
    KR: Ya. So in NTPC, price is not un, not under contest at all.
    N: (CLEARING THROAT) So how can the gove..
    KR: Though. No. No.
    N: How can the judge agree on this price then, in that case
    KR: No, judge, where has the judge agreed, only they have done…heh.
    N: Right.
    KR: Heh
    N: Ok, that’s the grey area. Ok, so where whenever you, when are you going to decide on Supreme Court?
    KR: Ye decide means I… It is only to tell in public when to tell. Decided is decided, there is nothing, no option
    N: Nono.
    KR: When to tell, when to tell is the issue
    N: Haan
    KR: Because we have said that we are consulting, today we’ll have a call with Harish.
    N: Haan
    KR: Then let’s see. When we will file etc, that strategy will be decided tomorrow, today….
    N: Ahan. Raja, just one request. Please don’t issue a statement at eight o’ clock at night.
    KR: Which one
    N: Whatever you decide, if you are going to decide to go to Supreme Court, which you have decided, please issue a statement early enough, because I need to play the media, on that. Just like it played yesterday on winning/ bidding (incomprehensible).
    KR: Hmm
    N: Therefore, if you issue a statement at eight o’ clock, you have lost the impact of it.
    KR: No, yesterday, actually no no, actually yesterday they said that no media. Then then you sent the mail
    N: No no. That is fine, yesterday I understand, I am talking about..
    KR: Actually we didn’t want to, yesterday actually we did not want to say any, give any this thing,
    N: No, but I had to
    KR: Then what you said, I read and I re wrote. Then I went to, went inside. Atul bhai was with Mukesh bhai. Then I discussed with both of them…then, Mukesh bhai first said fine. Then he said No why should we give such a big statement.
    N: Haan
    KR: He said you give this only, you give on these lines, then whatever I dic (sic), I sent to you,
    N: Hmm
    KR: Finally I, I told them and then went and showed it to Atul bhai and then they took his approval and then only sent it to you on manoj waria (?) (incomprehendible)
    N: No no. That is fine, that’s ok. But given that you will take a decision on (CROSS TALKING) no no point I am not. That I agree with you, that’s fine, because the whole day we were already telling the media, that we are studying the judgement, right.
    KR: No. But
    N: That was fine
    KR: No but. No but, when we go to Supreme Court there is no need to see another statement na..We won’t file, even the media will pick it up. I don’t know whether why we should even tell the media we are going to. ..anyway the matter is over ..yesterday all all hullabulla everything is over. Now, whatever they want to write, let them write, but why should we go and tell no no we are filing tomorrow… I don’t think we will issue such a statement because we don’t want them also to know…
    N: No no, not tomorrow…as and when we file…as and when we file
    KR: But by that time, whole thing would have died and we’ll just go and quietly file, because why should we issue a statement on the day we are going to file that we are going to file tomorrow…I don’t
    N: From, from an image an point of view, Raja?
    KR: No, but anyway it is going to be picked up. In fact, today’s Economic Times carries headlines, that there’s likely to go to Supreme Court, I think yesterday I saw, yesterday after returning home at 2 o’clock, I saw in the TVs, NDTV Profit carried a very big story, Mukul Rohatgi interview and all that, I think that would should have happened in the afternoon where they were re-telecasting. So he also said
    N: That it will go to Supreme court…ya they carried, Mukul Rohatgi Kakadia…aaa all the key lawyers
    KR: Yaya. Because yesterday we did not give. In fact, when we came out Niira, when we came out of the judge’s chamber,
    N: Haan
    KR: Everybody was there, they wanted interview from Atul Dayal, but he said no, we’ll see the judgement and tell, because anyway we
    N: No…but we…correct that is correct.
    KR: it’s like Dhoni not giving an interview when he loses the match
    N: No, that is correct but (?) the only, they went out, they went all out, all out
    KR: Haan
    N: As they would, as would be expected, but I see a point now why the judges got it wrong…which I didn’t understand that last few points which are NTPC pricing, I
    KR: Yayayaya
    N: Price
    KR: That he has quoted Harish Salve wrongly in the judgement, everything is (inaudible)
    N: Ya, making profits right, he says that you, he says you can make pro…he hasn’t understood how you make profits, no? Because you are saying I will recover my cost
    KR: Ya cost and then only profit starts
    N: That’s right ya, so I don’t think he is understood that..oh well, I am sorry Raja, it’s been a…nightmare
    KR: No no its ok
    N: Well, we’ll go to Supreme Court and win no?
    KR: Ya! Hehe
    N: Now we will go with that mindset, ya!
    KR: Yaya! 100% hehe
    N: Ok Raja. (incomprehensible) that Tata Power thing is happening today, haan.
    KR: …hearing?
    N: Nono, we are withdrawing 500 mega watts
    KR: Oh ok haan, ok ok that one, very good.
    N: Ya? That’s happening today, ya.
    KR: And lot of things are happening tomorrow. Thursday this is (incomprehensible) is coming up for hearing
    N: Ok.
    KR: (incomprehensible) against (incomprehensible)
    N: We will talk on the other line when you call
    KR: Yaya
    N: When you reach office we will call other line, haan
    KR: Yaya
    N: Ok ok bye.

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