Tarun on Sunil, MDA, RNT-20090612-125256

  • Tarun on Sunil, MDA, RNT-20090612-125256 

Srishti H has transcribed this tape in a comment below.

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2 Responses to “Tarun on Sunil, MDA, RNT-20090612-125256”


  1. 1 Srishti Handa November 30, 2010 at 11:09 am

    N: Hi Tarun
    T: Hi, just driving into Bombay
    N: Ok, you’ve landed
    T: Ya, I landed
    N: Ok, so Mukesh (Ambani) is expecting you at 4 o’clock?
    T:
    N: Great
    T: I’ll see him and then I’m having dinner with Ratan (Tata) in the evening
    N: With who?
    T: Ratan!
    N: Oh good *laughs* You’re gonna’ tell him about Mukesh?
    T: I have to…
    N: Hmm
    T: I would normally…
    N: Huh?
    T: I’m like that no? I tell everyone, I don’t have anything to…
    N: Hmm…
    T: …not to say, you know, I think no issue…
    N: Hmm, hmm
    T: And, uhhh…actually, the reason I was coming was because of the dinner
    N: Ok, ok, good…
    T: So that was the reason
    N: Good…good, good, good
    T: How’ve you been? Ok doing?
    N: No, nothing, i’m trying to look at a few issues, back on the fighting thing with telecom. I met Sunil (Mittal) by the way.
    T: Uh-huh?
    N: I met Sunil last week
    T: One to one or with others?
    N: No, no, one to one
    T: Acha
    N: So I met him, just to try and get a…a understanding of where we are and whether we can…Ratan still doesn’t trust him…
    T: Hmm
    N: …refusing to…have anything to do with him in any way at all
    T: Ya
    N: I think he doesn’t realize that this time around we’re going to need each other’s help. I can see it, I can see exactly where we’re going to need it, which is what I told Sunil also, don’t be so arrogant with Raja.
    T: Hmm
    N: I think you’re, you’re just letting…and his arrogance…competition is getting the better of him
    T: Hmm
    N: So…likewise, with Ratan, he…he can’t just, you know, wish Sunil away
    T: Hmm
    N: He has to give him credit for what he’s achieved all these years
    T: Ya
    N: I don’t think he can’t, otherwise we’d have to challenge that.
    T: So how did you find Sunil…or what did you think of him?
    N: Good, good, good, I’m still…the trust factor still has to build, you know? Otherwise, I don’t know?
    T: You met him at the office or home or what?
    N: At his house…
    T: Ok, ok
    N: Ya, I refused to go to…
    T: He keeps asking about you
    N: Ya? He said “I always thought you were out of bounds.” I said no, look, I can’t work for you because I know Ratan has a view, but I think maybe I can help you. There are certain areas where I think this needs to come together, but let’s see. I spoke to Ratan, I told him I met him. I told him, look, we have to be a little bit more reasonable now on how we approach things, we can’t…
    T: Why are you thinking you’ll run into trouble on the telecom side again?
    N: umm…Anil Ambani’s active, I met Raja…
    T: Ok
    N: And the attempt is to try and garner as much spectrum. You see, I can’t understand how the government is not moving against him, which is the I keep telling you. This is the issue that is going to come up. I’m not saying because of Tatas or Reliance…
    T: The issue is…
    N: Hmmm
    T: The issue Is this, Mukesh has any objections to Reliance Infocomm being bought over by somebody else?
    N: Hmm? What’s that?
    T: You heard my question
    N: No, no, I didn’t hear, I did not, sorry?
    T: Will he? Will the elder brother have objections?
    N: Hmm?
    T: Will he be ok, in other words, with Reliance Infocomm being bought over a foreign multinational?
    N: Completely, 100%! You can’t do a 100%, you can only do 74% max.
    T: Haan, whatever…
    N: So, Anil will still have to own 26 naa?
    T: Ya, that’s fine, but he will be basically, be…uhhh…a majo…a minority partner .
    N: I think, anything where he’s there, he’ll have a problem…*pause*
    T: Umm…
    N: It’s like what Maran did to Shiva in Aircel…
    T: So, so …if he can exit completely and the 26% goes to someone else?
    N: Yes
    T: That is alright, haina? That will …
    N: Ya, maybe…
    T: …because, uhh…we need to know what Mukesh’s position will be on this, because, uhhh…there is a buyer…
    N: AT&T, no?
    T: Whoever, now, I, uhhh…
    N: No! I know AT&T is talking
    T: So, what do you think?
    N: No, Tarun, let me tell you one thing first. AT&T, I know AT&T lobbied on the intervention, I am aware of it. But the thing is that AT&T is not aware that this is a company that is completely…I’m not saying this because of Mukesh or…uhh…Rrr…Ratan…
    T: Ya
    N: But AT&T is comp…doesn’t realize that they’ll have fudged revenues…if you…
    T: No, absolutely…
    N: 70 million subscribers is no…uh…is no longer there. Even Sunil will tell you, it’s not even 40 million!
    T: Quite a lot they know, quite a lot (word might have been round off)
    N: So, given that they…
    T: They still want…they still the company
    N: Haan, haan?
    T: They want the company worth this, do we have a problem? Do you rather have them or do you rather have Anil continuing?
    N: *Pause*
    T: Think about it. This is an issue that has been discussed with me by other people.
    N: Mmm hmm
    T: And Mukesh’s position, people want to know, where it is…where would he…what would he want? Nobody wants to cross him
    N: You see, he won’t tell you the truth, my worry is that he will, when you…see if you raise it with him today…why don’t you raise it with him today?
    T: *Pause* no, I am going to meet him because you wanted me to meet him…I have no agenda *laughs*
    N: Please don’t tell Ratan that, that I wanted you to meet him, please, you can say to him that you were in Bombay, no? *laughs* If you tell him that Nira wanted me to meet Mukesh…
    T: Hmm…
    N: …then you know…you know how he is, he’s extra sensitive naa…
    T: Don’t…uhhh…you have to…uhhh, we have too…you and I have to handle these things, don’t…let it be, let him be sensitive, it’s not necessary to be senstivie…
    N: Hmmm…
    T: uhh…if he, if he, knows that you know, you have facilitated this and , I don’t think it is an issue and we should take it up front with him
    N: Hmm…
    T: You know, don’t…I think we should not shy away from that ‘coz Ratan also has to get over all these hang ups…
    N: Hmmm…
    T: Because, today, Mukesh is gaining more and more respect, not only in the country, but internationally.
    N: Correct
    T: …he has set aside the past reputation, he is earning respect…
    N: Hmmm
    T: …from people, so I think Ratan also has to arbit/admit them, that he is not a bandit king
    N: Hmm
    T: That’s why I’m saying again, the fact that you’re working there with him and are involved with him, for me, gives a new legitimacy to him, in a way, that, I mean look, 2 years ago he had said you must go to Jamnagar, I want you to go and all. I had agreed to go, just haven’t, you know, found the dates and all that and…
    N: But, but, Tarun and you…you and I’ll go to Jamnagar together haan…Kakinada and Jamnagar…
    T: Ok, fine…
    N: I still haven’t…uhh…been, you know?
    T: Oh, you haven’t been?
    N: Noo…
    T: I though you had been…
    N: No…no, no, no, no, I’ve been saying to him I’m not just gonna’ go like that, we’ll go
    together
    T: sure…go together…but uhh…he must not be…shy away from this…Ratan is to get over the Sunil Mittal allergy, he must get over the Mukesh Ambani allergy, he needs friends also, no?
    N: He’s not willing to do, that’s what I’m trying to tell him. I had the same discussion with Mukesh, that, you know, Mukesh is saying, as far as Sunil is concerned, that Nira, we need to all align…
    T: Ya, absolutely…
    N: …and so, if Ratan can come on the table and align also, that’s a good thing, you know?
    T: Hmm…
    N: So when I raised this with rattan he said I would still not trust him
    T: You don’t have to trust him but you can still align, why trust anybody?
    N: Hmm
    T: You know
    N: Hmm
    T: Let people say what they have to say at the table and sign off , that this is what we all agreed to, whatever the min is, agree to something and in this uhh business of govt policies and areas like telecom…
    N: Hmm
    T: …you need to be aligned, and if you’re not aligned then all the other sources will divide and rule and, and…uhh.. get away with murder
    N: Hmm
    T:.. but you have to align and agree on how much you’ll align, If you cant align on everything, align on 10%,whatever,
    N: yea, here you have to align because of policy issues
    T: Ya, absolutely, you have to align. I’m glad you met Sunil, because he has been talking to me, about you, I have told him about you…
    N: hmm
    T: you asked to meet him or he asked to meet you?
    N: Sunil?
    T: Ya
    N: Well it started this way, I sent him an sms, because Anil Ambani’s group was under… they were attacking his MPN deal and they were circulating whitepaper and talking to the media to play up this whole issue of compliance. So I then sent him one of the sms’ that I got from the editors, saying “Nira, just to let you know this is happening on Sunil Mittal and he’s not going to be compliant.” So I reacted to the ET editors saying that listen guys for once in your life, allow something go through properly. So I copied Sunil in all those sms,’ saying, “listen, I want you to know that this has happened and this has been my response and I think its time that all of us grow up.” So he replied back saying can we talk? Laughs! and I said sure, then he called me and we talked after a couple of days and then he said can we meet and then he said you know I always thought you were out of bounds, I never realized, you know… you’d actually do this? And I said look, Sunil, I have nothing personal against you, I am fighting a battle which is to protect my clients’ interests…
    T: Ya
    N: But I see there is a possibility of an alignment, I see a common minimum agenda coming through
    T: Ya
    N: and I think it makes sense for both of you, but he says you know, I have no problem at all, but Ratan has to agree. I separately spoke to Mukesh also…
    T: He told me that, he told me that *mumbles*
    N: Hmm
    T: He told me the same thing many times…
    N: Who? Rrr…uhh… Sunil, no?
    T: Sunil, yeah
    N: So then I rang Mukesh also, I said Mukesh I’m starting this dialog, do you have any problem with it? He said absolutely not, Sunil is a friend and no, no problem at all.
    T: Hmm
    N: So then I told…when I spoke to Ratan and of course Ratan had a different reaction to it and when I spoke to Anil Sardana (name unclear), he had an even worse reaction to it
    T: HMM
    N: And I’m telling them listen I’m seeing a problem, you guys are going to get into trouble, because I’m talking to Raja everyday, you know?
    T: Hmm
    N: And I know where he’s… I can see his body language;
    T:Hmm
    N: Raja will be very cautious in what he has to do but we have to step in and Tatas and Mittals telling him “listen, we will take you all the way”
    T:Hmm
    N: …he’ll backtrack and he’ll do what is right…
    T: Mmm hmm
    N: Right now he is being pressurized to give extra spectrum to Anil
    T: Hmm
    N: Because Anil wants to sell to AT&T and wants to realized the best uhh…the best…uhh…valuation
    T: Hmm, hmm *LONG PAUSE*
    N: So that’s where it is…
    T: Ok
    N: Well yes, have a…YES…
    T:
    N: Gimme a call and have a good meeting
    T: Ya, ya
    N: Ya
    T: So how do we push on? How does one get in the building? Must be a fortress
    N: No, no, simple, your…your car number…you have your car number?
    T: Ya, they’ve given…given to his office
    N: Given to his office no? That’s fine and they’ll be somebody downstairs, I’m sure, waiting for you. I’ll just speak to Venkat and make sure somebody is waiting. So 4 o’clock, yeah?
    T: 4 o’clock, Yeah
    N: Great! Let me know how it goes
    T: Ya, ya, sure, sure

  2. 2 Krishnakumar Sankaran December 7, 2010 at 8:10 am

    CROSSCHECK:

    ORIGINAL: N: Oh good *laughs* You’re gonna’ tell him about Mukesh?
    CHANGE: N: Oh good *laughs* You’re gonna’ tell him you met Mukesh?

    ORIGINAL: T: How’ve you been? Ok doing?
    CHANGE: T: How’ve you been? What’s you doing?

    ORIGINAL: N: I think you’re, you’re just letting…and his arrogance…competition is getting the better of him
    CHANGE: N: I think he’s not uh…I think you’re, you’re just letting…and his arrogance…competition is getting the better of him

    ORIGINAL: N: Good, good, good, I’m still…the trust factor still has to build, you know? Otherwise, I don’t know?
    CHANGE: N: Good, good, good, I’m still…the trust factor still has to build, you know? I don’t know?

    ORIGINAL: N: Ya? He said “I always thought you were out of bounds.” I said no, look, I can’t work for you because I know Ratan has a view, but I think maybe I can help you. There are certain areas where I think this needs to come together, but let’s see. I spoke to Ratan, I told him I met him. I told him, look, we have to be a little bit more reasonable now on how we approach things, we can’t…
    CHANGE: N: Ya? He said “I always thought you were out of bounds.” I said no, look, I can’t work for you because I know Ratan has a view, but I think maybe I can help you. There are certain areas where I think this needs to come together, but let’s see. I spoke to Ratan, I told him I met him. I told him, look, we have to be a little bit more reasonable how we approach things, we can’t…

    ORIGINAL: N: And the attempt is to try and garner as much spectrum. You see, I can’t understand how the government is not moving against him, which is the I keep telling you. This is the issue that is going to come up. I’m not saying because of Tatas or Reliance…
    CHANGE: N: And the attempt is to try and garner as much spectrum. You see, I can’t understand how the government is not moving against him, this is the Satyam (???) I keep on telling you. Prime Minister is going to have to…this is going to be an issue that is going to come up. I’m not saying because of Tatas or Reliance…

    ORIGINAL: T: Will he? Will the elder brother have objections?
    CHANGE: T: Will he? Will the elder brother have any objections?

    ORIGINAL: T: Will he be ok, in other words, with Reliance Infocomm being bought over a foreign multinational?
    CHANGE: T: Will he be ok, in other words, with Reliance Infocomm being bought by a foreign multinational?

    ORIGINAL: N: No, Tarun, let me tell you one thing first. AT&T, I know AT&T lobbied on the intervention, I am aware of it. But the thing is that AT&T is not aware that this is a company that is completely…I’m not saying this because of Mukesh or…uhh…Rrr…Ratan…
    CHANGE: N: No, Tarun, let me tell you one thing first. AT&T, I know AT&T is talking to them, they’re well entrenched. I am aware of it. But the thing is that AT&T is not aware that this is a company that is completely…I’m not saying this because of Mukesh or…uhh…Rrr…Ratan…

    ORIGINAL: T: Think about it. This is an issue that has been discussed with me by other people.
    CHANGE: T: Think about it. This is an issue which has been discussed with me by other people.

    ORIGINAL: N: He’s not willing to do, that’s what I’m trying to tell him. I had the same discussion with Mukesh, that, you know, Mukesh is saying, as far as Sunil is concerned, that Nira, we need to all align…
    CHANGE: N: He’s not willing to do that, that’s what I’m trying to tell him. I had the same discussion with Mukesh, that, you know…Mukesh is saying, look, as far as Sunil is concerned, that Nira, we need to all align…

    ORIGINAL: T: Let people say what they have to say at the table and sign off , that this is what we all agreed to, whatever the min is, agree to something and in this uhh business of govt policies and areas like telecom…
    CHANGE: T: Let people say what they have to say at the table and sign off , that this is what we all agreed to, whatever the minimum is, agree to something and in this…uhh, business of govt policies and areas like telecom…

    ORIGINAL: N: Well it started this way, I sent him an sms, because Anil Ambani’s group was under… they were attacking his MPN deal and they were circulating whitepaper and talking to the media to play up this whole issue of compliance. So I then sent him one of the sms’ that I got from the editors, saying “Nira, just to let you know this is happening on Sunil Mittal and he’s not going to be compliant.” So I reacted to the ET editors saying that listen guys for once in your life, allow something go through properly. So I copied Sunil in all those sms,’ saying, “listen, I want you to know that this has happened and this has been my response and I think its time that all of us grow up.” So he replied back saying can we talk? Laughs! and I said sure, then he called me and we talked after a couple of days and then he said can we meet and then he said you know I always thought you were out of bounds, I never realized, you know… you’d actually do this? And I said look, Sunil, I have nothing personal against you, I am fighting a battle which is to protect my clients’ interests…
    CHANGE: N: Well it started this way, I sent him an sms, because Anil Ambani’s group was under… they were attacking his MPN deal
    T: Haan
    N: And they were circulating whitepaper and talking to the media to play up this whole issue of compliance.
    T: Right.
    N: So I then sent him one of the sms’ that I got from the editors, saying “Nira, just to let you know this is happening on Sunil Mittal and he’s not going to be compliant.” So I reacted to the ET editors saying, listen guys, you know, for once in your life, allow something go through properly.
    T: Hmm.
    N: So I copied Sunil in all those smses, saying, “Listen, I just want you to know that this has happened and this has been my response and I think that it’s about time that we all grew up.” So he replied back saying can we talk? (Laughs)
    T: Ya
    N: And I said sure, then he called and we talked after a couple of days and then he said can we meet and then he said you know I always thought you were out of bounds, I never realized that you’d actually, you know, do this? And I said look, Sunil, I have nothing personal against you, I am fighting a battle which is to protect my clients’ interests…

    ORIGINAL: N: So then I rang Mukesh also, I said Mukesh I’m starting this dialog, do you have any problem with it? He said absolutely not, Sunil is a friend and no, no problem at all.
    CHANGE: N: So then I rang Mukesh also, I said Mukesh I’m starting this dialog, do you have any prob…He said absolutely not, Sunil is a friend and no, no problem at all.


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